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Interview with Werner Sonntag

Русская версия интервью

Werner Sonntag - journalist, writer and marathon-runner, the author of the monography "Kampfes Lust" (Fighting Lust)



Tell about yourself.

I was born in 1926 and was growing up in very simple conditions in Eastern Germany. I had a rigorous catholic education; therefore I had a great problem with sexuality. The other problem was the Nazis, they stole my youth, and I lost two years in the war. After the war and Soviet captivity I became a teacher in the Soviet occupied part of Germany. I went into journalism, worked in East Berlin and then left the German Democratic Republic in 1952. Since that time I’ve been living in the region of Stuttgart (South West Germany). I have been married since 1955; we have one son and 3 grandsons.

When did you start feeling you were interested in female combat? Was it when you were a child?

The first was that wrestling combats were exciting me. I was in the age of 4, as I saw boys wrestle, and I was fascinated. Later for the masturbation I always had wrestling fantasies; in the adolescence there were fantasies of wrestling girls, may be it happened first time when I was 12. I have written in my book about this phase.

Had you dealt with combative women before you started thinking about this matter?

No, at first I was thinking about this matter. Later I met combative women.

When did you see physical conflict between women first time?

I have never seen physical conflicts between women in real life. Such conflicts I only saw in films and in show wrestling.

When and why did you decided to research psychological aspects of women fighting and watching it?

In the early seventies I met a wrestling fan and his girlfriend. At that time I decided to write a book about female fighting. In my whole life I was psychologically interested in it. In the age of 15 I read Sigmund Freud. In the Nazi time in Germany Freud’s books were forbidden because he was a Jew, but a woman in the library gave me one book of Freud getting a risk (not all the Germans were Nazis). In my short education as a teacher I had to study psychology. When I worked as an editor in a newspaper I visited scientific congresses and studied many books for psychology, but essentially I’m autodidact. In 1972 I saw a first picture of wrestling women, and I started buying films. In the eighties I saw real wrestling girls.

What are the sources of your knowledge about the matter? Did you talk to combative women and men involved?

In the book you will find my sources. And I also talked with many involved combative women and men. Especially many thanks to Sonja and Iris, Gisela and Susanne.

Did you read special scientific or medical literature regarding the topic?

I have read many books and I had some medical knowledge from running experience. The bibliography in my book (9 pages) gives the best answer. I also spoke and corresponded with two medical specialists.

Did you meet other men who told you about their feeling in respect of female combat?

Yes, a lot.

A couple of decades ago even the term “women’s wrestling” sounded strange. How come women combative activities became so widespread now?

I think official women's wrestling is the fruit of emancipation and feminism. But the modern feminism has precursors in the strong women of the past and in the “Suffragettes”. There is many more in the book, chapter “Changing of the Women Image”.

Why female combat is considered as erotic action? What the mechanism works here?

Read Freud’s “Three dissertations to the theory of sexuality”. I try to say it in one short sentence: The first sexual excitements in the childhood are from wrestling (that what Freud means). But you need a book to explain the mechanism. It is very complex.

If female combat is so excited why it wasn’t cultivated during centuries back in the past? Maybe the reason is that men have become physically weaker and softer and, so therefore need some additional stimulus. Is this true?

I think female fighting ever existed but very seldom. For instance, girls wrestled in Sparta; in the Middle Ages upper class feudal females competed in tournaments; in Africa wrestling was an initiation rite for both genders; in the beginning of the 18th century in England women began to box and to wrestle. More examples are in my book. I think the men of today are not weaker or softer. Since the World War II we have had over 200 wars in the world - I believe soft men don’t throw bombs. We need more soft men. I mean the sexuality today plays a greater role than in the past. In the past life was short, therefore the phase of sexual activity was short too. Sexual life was limited by one wife for the most working people but the upper class had many different amusements; for example, in the 19th century women began to wrestle for spectator amusement (particularly in France).

Don’t you think wrestling or boxing is harmful for female body and for prospect birth giving process?

Wrestling is not harmful if you are trained enough. There is no danger for the birth giving process. But professional boxing is dangerous for both genders, not for birth giving process though but for the brain (so called “boxer encephalitis”).

Don’t you think that women’s combat is some kind of unnatural activity since female animals usually don’t fight?

No, I don’t think so. In many cases female animals are more dangerous than male ones. Female spiders eat the male spiders after sexual activity. Indeed, normally women are not so aggressive as men do. But one of the results of the emancipation is that women learn to fight. Wrestling is not an unnatural activity. I think, for the most people playful wrestling is a part of sexual life.

Don’t you think that too much fascination with female combat spectacles and imaginations as an additional stimulant might destroy regular male sexual function?

I don’t think so. In the contrary, I think all erotic fantasies are qualified for intensification of the sexual abilities. So, combat imaginations can strengthen the sexual function. Especially, old men need such stimulants. I know some elderly man get an erection in a mixed fight even if they cannot get it with prostitutes.

I know that some men feel excitement when watch female combat or just think about it whereas some other men have quite opposite feelings considering such things as disgusting. Why?

People are different. The sexual life has a wide range of possibilities and variations. For instance, some people love oral sex whereas other people disgust it. The reaction of a man to watching female combat depends on his sexual biography and first of all on his childhood and youth.

Do you know anything about the opposite phenomenon – women’s arousal by watching men’s fighting? It would be more understandable because in the wild nature males fight over females during mating periods.

Some heterosexual women get an orgasm while they are watching men at sport, especially in boxing and soccer. Orgasm can come at the moment of a goal in soccer. Wrestling causes more esthetical and erotic arousals. Perhaps, some women who are watching wrestling men have fantasies of violence against them, so they identify themselves with a loser in a grappling situation.

Do you agree that violence or imagination about violence against a woman (even on the part of another woman) is the main component of female combat eroticism?

I agree that violence or the imagination about violence is a component but not the main component. The most of men like it to watch Lesbian activities. Female combat is like such a Lesbian activity. But the imaginations might be different, even for the same man – watching one combat he can concentrate on the violence component but next time he would imagine a Lesbian act. It also depends on a character of the combat.

Personal question. What form of female combat is the most exciting and arousing for yourself? What wrestling move excites you more?

In fact, I love variations. But the most excitement I have watching erotic and sexual fights, which end in an orgasm.

What does your wife think about female combat and men’s interest in it? Did you feel ill at ease when first time confessed to her that you were interested in female fighting?

My wife tolerates it. She finds it much better than going to other women. I didn’t feel ill at ease because I confessed that I like wrestling at the moment when we both first time watched men's wrestling. Then she could understand better my interest in female fighting.

We know that you are an avid marathon runner. Why you chose so complex sport? What are your main achievements?

I began jogging in 1966, just for health. After a while I developed an enthusiasm for running and one day I ran about 10 km. Then I ran a marathon distance and after that - ultra-marathon (100 km). I wasn't a fast runner but I had a good endurance. The best my achievement was finishing the "Spartathlon", a run from Athens to Sparta (Greece); it's about 246 km (153 miles) for 36 hours. We followed in the footsteps of a semi-legendary Athenian courier Pheidippides described by Herodotus. He mentioned in his "Histories" that in 490 B.C. Pheidippides reached Sparta in the evening of the following day after he had left Athens. That means about 36 hours. An English captain reconstructed the route and with his comrades' help he researched if it was possible. It turned out to be possible. These competitions have been held since 1983; it's a hard run in a hot condition with ascents; at night we surmounted the Parthenio mountain (over 1000 m altitude). I finished the Spartathlon in 1989 and 1990. I think there are approximately 300 runners in the world now who have finished that distance during last 20 years quicker than for 36 hours. Another great achievement was crossing Germany from North to South (1100 km) for 20 days. I also competed in the Swiss Alpine Super-marathon, the Jungfrau Marathon in Switzerland. Besides. I participated in the major United States Marathons: 3 times in New York, 2 times in Boston; also in San Diego and Honolulu.

It's really unbelievable! Thank you very much! We hope to continue cooperation with you in the future. Have a great health and keep running for many years.

New York Marathon

Last mile on the Berlin Marathon, September 2003

November 15, 2003




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