Alexei Bauman: How did you come into the world of wrestling?
Natty Pugnatto: I started wrestling a year ago, introduced by my boyfriend and mainly with his friends' girlfriends or wives. The men like to watch while we fight for submission and it's a lot of fun. Sometimes the guys will chose outfits for us to wear like bikinis, but usually we wrestle in yoga shorts and sports bras.
AB: Do you enjoy this activity or you do this for your boy-friend's pleasure?
NP: I enjoy the fighting, but one problem my boyfriend has is the trash talk. He and his friend want the ladies to verbally bash each other, apart from fighting physically. I tried it a couple of times, but we ended up giggling instead. He also doesn't want me to make friends with the other women, and thinks we will fight better if there is animosity involves. I tried telling him that it's much easier to wrestle with friends I can trust without worrying about drama.
AB: Tell us about your very last match
"Headlock is easier than an armbar"
NP: Last week I fought with his buddy's girl for more than half an hour. It was a tough and combative series of matches with not much rest and many pins and submissions. We are quite similar in size and strength, so no one was able to dominate the other and each bout was very competitive. Throughout the fight we both tried many different tactics for submission, and a variety of grappling techniques which was exciting to experience. We thought we did great, but my boyfriend and his friend got angry after it was over. What really bothered them was the congratulations after the fight between me and her, when we smiled and hugged each other. They were convinced we hated each other and wanted us to keep a grudge till the rematch.
AB: Were you able to pretend you hated her – just to make you b-f happy?
NP: It's not possible, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I like her and we don't want to hide our friendship. Secondly, after a gruelling fight when you are panting and sweating on the floor it's good to share some sympathy with the other person who is feeling the same way. It's completely natural that we will hug each other or express some affection. But the men got upset when we exchanged kisses on the cheek. They want us to be like enemies, even after the fight. Can you suggest a good way we can explain to them?
AB: Have you ever fought against your b-f's exes?
NP: Yes. My boyfriend was very keen, so I had a wrestling match with my his ex-girlfriend. Actually, he had introduced her as well to wrestling when they were together, and was quite keen for me to fight her. He talked to her new boyfriend and set up the whole thing, even though I was very reluctant about it. I didn't know her at all and was worried how it would turn out. But overall, when it's difficult to find other women who like wrestling, and the fact that she was of similar size and weight, made me choose to do it. Her boyfriend and mine wanted us to wrestle in bikinis, but we chose gym shorts and sports bras instead. I was nervous about what it would be like, not sure if I could deal with all the emotions and jealousy that may come out. But surprisingly, that did not become an issue, and the fights went on for nearly 2 hrs. Once we were on the mat, all other concerns evaporated and the only thoughts were about the struggle and execution, like with any other opponent. We chatted freely during the breaks, and got more accustomed to each other's style of fighting. The matches themselves were quite close, with the results in balance throughout. Finally, I won 5 submissions to her 3 and 1 draw. Thankfully it went off very well and we both had a lot of fun. She and her boyfriend congratulated me and we promised to do it again soon. Funnily, the only person who was a little disappointed at the end of it was my boyfriend. He said he wanted me to dominate more and make her suffer. I guess there were still some resentments from him after their break-up, but I didn't know about that. Anyway, I wrestled as well as I wanted and was pleased with my performance. I was lucky that his ex-gf had a similar temperament and fought with the right spirit to make me feel safe. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone if they are not confident of that.
AB: Do you like watching men's fighting?
NP: I don't like watching men fight. I enjoy fights myself, but no particular pleasure in watching. My boyfriend likes to watch me fighting.
AB: Looks like you wrestle in the submission style. Why submission rather than free style which is less harmful?
NP: I don't particularly prefer submission over freestyle for any good reason. But freestyle requires special techniques and rules that most people don't know and a knowledgeable referee also. Sub style is easier for a self-taught or part-time wrestler, I think. Most of the ladies in my wrestling groups are without any formal training.
AB: What technique do you use to force your opponents to submit?
NP: Anyone that works! It depends on the situation. Of course, some like the headlock are easier than an armbar. Scissors to the neck also works.
"It was a tough and combative series of matches with not much rest and many pins and submissions"
AB: Can you please describe your best match?
NP: There were a few good ones.
AB: Do you remember your first fight?
NP: The first time in a fight I don't really remember. Maybe around the age of 6 or 7, we kids fought many times with both girls and boys. But that was during play and not really with proper rules or technique.
AB: Some are claiming that nowadays girls fight more frequently than guys. Do you agree with this statement?
"The only worry about my breasts is that they might pop out of my top!"
NP: I don't think girls fight more than guys. In my gym and elsewhere there are always more guys boxing and wrestling or whatever. That's why when I practice it's mostly with a guy since other women are very rare.
AB: It was probably about brawling rather than athletic contests. What kind of gym are you training in?
NP: The gym is a regular one, but they have a boxing ring and mats for wrestling/judo.
Thank you for your questions but I wanted to know if you have seen similar case as mine - where men want fighting women to show animosity with trash talk and staredowns. Even if this is distracting for the women involved.
AB: Yes, such desires from men seem to be quite common – I don’t have personal experience though - I only heard that from visitors of our site – in articles and especially in our forums. I personally experience excitement watching women physical contests, especially intense competitive ones. Slow play of chicken is not exciting. And trash talks don't impress me personally – regardless if it is on the mat or beyond. Under what condition you are engaged in a wrestling match?
NP: I would never wrestle with a woman I did not trust or respect because it would be dangerous. You put your safety on the line with your opponent so it has to be with someone who trusts you and vice versa. And anyway, most of my opponents are friends of mine even if we don't start out that way.
AB: I totally agree with you - this is what Barbara 'the Doctor' insisted – you must trust and respect an opponent if you want to wrestle with her friendly, otherwise it would be an ugly brawl.
NP: I am wondering if you asked your wife/girlfriends to wrestle for you? Would you ask your wife/girlfriend to wrestle with your ex-girlfriend? What would you expect in such a match? Once it happened to me, I am wondering if other men also like that.
AB: Answering the second part – NO! Not between a current and an ex - it is extremely stupid. I didn't ask my girlfriends and wives to wrestle either – the most of them were not capable to fight, except the very first one. Usually it was vice versa: I wrestled with other guys for my girlfriends' pleasure. Unlike you, many women love watching men's fights, especially if they fight by rules and especially if men fight over of for them. When I was a teenager, I happened to wrestle with an older girl in a summer camp. She was a strong experienced volleyball player. Once she provoked me for a wrestling match while we were walking in the woods; actually she unexpectedly attacked me. It was an unusual experience: at first I felt embarrassed realizing that she was strong enough and could pin me. I started acting in full strength and after intense struggling I eventually managed to violently pin her. Then all the sudden, she eased off and whispered into my ear something I memorized forever: "You just inflicted pain on me! Remember, no matter how strong a woman seems to be, she is different and you should always measure your physical vigor against a woman." She looked infuriated.
NP: What happened after that?
AB: For a while she pretended she was angry at me. Later, I saw her wrestling with other girls from her team in front of girls and guys from the team. It was surprisingly exciting, fascinating and aphrodisiac spectacle. The girls fought ardently and my girl won all her matches. At those moments I felt urgent desire for her. After that I approached her and confessed her my love. Then I got my first experience with a woman and I always appreciate her excellent love lesson. Since then I always feel excitement watching fighting women. I don't like brutality though. My other girlfriends and wives were too feminine and tender to be capable to participate in any physical contests. However, for that matter, I am just recalling some event… Not sure though I can tell that publicly.
"And all this ended with a great wrestling match"
NP: Please tell, you can change it a little, so no one could recognize themselves.
AB: Actually, I would not expect those participants even use Internet... OK. I was married that time but happened to have a vacation alone in Caribbean where I was seduced by a beautiful local girl whom American guys usually call a 'lemon'. She was cleaning my room when I came in to get an umbrella. She looked at me so temptingly that I was unable to resist. It was so unbelievable, that and I was urgently looking for another occasion. But another time there was another 'lemon' cleaning my room. She had very curvy body: a small waist that explodes into a juicy protruded posterior. Black people call that 'badonkadonk'. She was shyer than the previous girl but I got her easy. Needless to say that both girls got generous tips for cleaning my room ;) To make the story short: they started fiercely competing over my largess. And all this ended with a great wrestling match. On my last day in the resort I asked the girls to amuse me for a good award. It was one of the best spectacles I have ever seen in my life. And a great love-in for the finale… Women's wrestling is the best aphrodisiac!
NP: Sounds like a great memory with a couple of fun-loving girls. You mentioned a 'great love-in' at the end of your vacation with the two girls. What did you mean by that? Would you elaborate on that?
AB: You bet, they literally raped me. Once the intensive fight between the rivals was over and the curvy girls left lying on the floor almost naked, the winner jump on me and unceremoniously threw me onto the bed - after the energy-sapping match her energy just trippled. After a short while the second girl joined the sharp game... Sorry, can't elaborate any more - too exciting!
I just forgot who is an interviewer here. Can you please describe in more detail your typical wrestling match?
NP: Generally, we face off in a room at my boyfriend's house or my opponent's house. He clears the furniture and lays down mats about 6m square. As I said, we usually wear tight exercise shorts and sports bras for comfort, though sometimes the men will want us to wear bikinis. The guys will sit outside the area, there's no referee but the men will watch for a submission or step in to break us up if something goes wrong. We start by circling around, waiting for the right time to go in and grab a good hold or get an advantageous position. I try not to rush things so much now, so many girls make the mistake of charging in too early and getting caught in a surprise lock. I learned that early on, and don't like to hurry myself. The techniques are mainly standard grappling techniques once we get a good hold on each other. With inexperienced opponents I mainly go for a quick takedown around the trunk or waist. With more experienced women, the first thing is to avoid getting taken down myself and then try to get an advantage in the stand-up position. Usually the fight soon ends up on the ground and key for me is to get her back or her neck before she gets mine. Once you get a good hold from your opponents back, it's easier to control the action, whether you're on top or below her. I have strong legs and like to apply scissors to the torso while using my hands to control her upper body. A chokehold or neck/head scissors is good to finish the match if you can get it right. Sometimes an armbar or leg crank will do the job but it's more difficult and I have to think it through first before trying it. If neither of us can get a firm submission hold, I try to stay on top of her and use my body weight to tire her out. The key for me is to keep a calm mind in the heat of battle, otherwise it's easy to get too excited and make a mistake. With an evenly matched opponent, the mental side is more important than the physical prowess. It's about spotting the right opportunity and taking advantage of it.
AB: How you feel when you win and lose. Do you experience pain, anger?
NP: Winning definitely is a better feeling than losing, of course. It's a big thrill and also a huge relief especially after a tough fight. Worse than losing is knowing you made a bad mistake or that you did not do your best in the match, that's when I really feel anger and pain. If she is similar to me in size and skill, I don't get too disappointed after a loss and know I will try harder and can beat her in the rematch. Sometimes losing is not so bad if I know my opponent was much better and I did everything I could have done. I once lost badly to a former Jujitsu champion, she was really strong and skilled and made me submit repeatedly in different ways. It may have looked pretty bad for me, but I tried my best and felt quite good about the effort. After the match, when she told me I did really well for an amateur, I felt so happy that I kept smiling long after it was over! Even my boyfriend was surprised since he thought I would be humiliated after a bad loss, but I was actually quite happy about the whole thing.
"She argued loudly with me"
AB: Do you scream, yell during wrestling or you wrestle silently? What you tell each other?
NP: I don't like to shout or scream while wrestling, because it distracts and wastes energy. Most of my wrestling friends also don't, which is a relief since I'd go deaf if someone kept screaming in my ear when I'm rolling around with them! Besides it's important to breathe properly which you can't do while yelling. Once or twice a new girl will get a bit noisy while fighting, but they soon stop after realizing it's not much help. Generally I've seen the men who are watching make more noise cheering than the wrestlers! With my regular opponents, we don't tell each other much before a fight because we already know what to do and are familiar with each other's techniques. After the bout we might discuss how the tactics worked or how to improve our holds. With a new opponent I might go over the rules and safety first, or also show her some techniques afterwards. Our boyfriends will sometimes ask us to trash talk and bitch about each other. They seem to like this, even if they know the insults are fake and the women don't humor them always.
AB: Do you enjoy inflicting pain to your opponent in the heat of the battle?
NP: Yes, that's the whole point of submission matches. If she doesn't feel pain she won't submit, will she? Obviously I don't want anyone to get injured; the goal is to make her too uncomfortable to continue before she gets seriously hurt. That's the advantage of wrestling over boxing/kickboxing where the chance of injury and concussion is much higher. This way I can submit before I get something damaged. But you always have to be careful, because it's risky.
AB: Can you describe some awkward moments in your matches?
NP: The scariest moment I ever had on the mat was a few months ago when I wrestled a girl from Italy. I had her in a head scissors and was cranking up the pressure on her neck when I heard a loud click. I got so scared that it might be a spinal injury, I immediately let go and started panicking. Her boyfriend heard it too and we rushed over to see if she was OK. I was virtually in tears, but she said she was fine and the pain wasn't too bad. In fact she insisted on getting back to the fight! I didn't want to take any chances and refused to carry on. She argued loudly with me, and her boyfriend, to start wrestling again but I was too nervous to go on. In fact, I refused to fight her again till she had it checked by a doctor, which she did the next day. Thankfully everything was OK, but even now, when I think of that moment I shiver a little bit! So yeah, the risk is always there and I have to be mindful of it.
AB: Aren't you afraid to damage your breasts or other vulnerable organs?
NP: Breasts are not really in danger with the right bra. Again, unlike boxing there's no risk of a strike or impact to damage them. The only worry about my breasts is that they might pop out of my top! But that is also taken care of with a good bra. Sometimes fingers or toes can get twisted while rolling under her body, but I've not seen that happen very often.
AB: Have you ever fight with other girls without men's supervision? How is it to compete without male spectators?
NP: Sometimes, we girls will get together without the guys to just practice grappling and hang out. It's a lot of fun and many of the women are more relaxed and free without their boyfriends watching. There's less pressure and nobody objects when we chat about clothes and makeup in between the wrestling! We've got a nice group of about half a dozen friends who wrestle regularly now and I hope it grows more!
AB: Natty, thank you very much for this candid interview, it's so good to see a girl enjoyning physical contests. Good luck and be happy!
"She was really strong and skilled and made me submit repeatedly in different ways"
Pauline Goodwyn from United Kingdom is a well-known 3D digital artist. Being an athlete herself in her early years, she enjoyed practicing several sports not common for girls a couple of decades ago: wrestling, boxing, football (soccer). Besides, she is a sports fan and frequent sporting event visitor. She is clued up about grappling, wrestling and boxing which allows her to make her contest episodes very credible.
Pauline kindly authorized us to use her artworks to illustrate the unique "manual" for female recreational combat written by famous Barbara the doctor: "Go and Fight".Moreover, she created new illustrations and adjusted some old ones.
We praise Pauline as the great digital artist in the female combat genre.
Exclusive by the Female Single Combat Club
"The men like to watch while we fight for submission and it's a lot of fun"
My boyfriend was very keen, so I had a wrestling match with my his ex-girlfriend and I was very nervous about it"
"Funnily, the only person who was a little disappointed at the end of it was my boyfriend. He said he wanted me to dominate more and make her suffer"
"My boyfriend and his friends want the ladies to verbally bash each other, apart from fighting physically. I tried it a couple of times, but we ended up giggling instead"
"With inexperienced opponents I mainly go for a quick takedown around the trunk or waist"
"With experienced opponent. Trying to get an advantage in the stand-up position"
"Once you get a good hold from your opponents back, it's easier to control the action"
"A chokehold or neck/head scissors is good to finish the match if you can get it right"
"Sometimes, we girls will get together without the guys to just practice grappling and hang out"